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Copyright status: File:Patrick Sims-Williams, 2018.png

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Yours sincerely, Yann (talk) 17:22, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

File:Sir Ifor Williams, 1938.jpg

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ᴀlbanɢeller (talk) 16:50, 5 September 2025 (UTC)

Arms of Ednyfed Fychan

Thank-you for uploading File:Arfau Ednyfed Fychan, yn ôl Gruffudd Hiraethog.png and for working on the corresponding Wikipedia article! I'd like to ask two questions. Firstly, I'm curious about why you chose this particular image, as there are several in the same Peniarth MS 135 that appear to me to be the same. Are there differences that are not obvious between the arms on p. 331 (the one uploaded) and those on pp. 318, 321, and 346? I can't begin to read the written text, so are those ones perhaps the arms of his descendants, either with the same blazon or different blazons? (Sometimes Saracens' or giants' heads are substituted for the Englishmen's or Saxons'.) Secondly, what's the connexion with Gruffudd Hiraethog? The NLW mansuscripts list doesn't attribute the manuscript to his hand or mention him under Peniarth 135. I look forward to knowing more! GPinkerton (talk) 21:40, 19 February 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment. I can only make out a bit of the text too, I just picked out the image as it is the cleanest one of the copies of these arms, though you can make out Ednyfed's name to the right of the arms. I don't really know much about arms at all, but if you check Siddons' volumes on Welsh heraldry, the answer will probably be there. The manuscript is attributed to Gruffudd Hiraethog here: https://archifau.llyfrgell.cymru/index.php/cronicl-byr. Tipcake (talk) 21:52, 19 February 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. I don't see Gruffudd's name at the linked page, but I did look up the citation there to John Gwenogvryn Evans's Report on Manuscripts in the Welsh Language, and there it does say on p. 847, vol. I,

Pedigrees, Brief Chronicle, and Armorial Bearings by Griffith Hiraethog in whose hand nearly all the MS. is written

so that clears that up! Evans has what seems to be a relatively detailed inventory or part transcription of the manuscript, including, beginning on p. 851

The Armorial devices (coloured) and brief pedigrees of:—

so perhaps that would help a Celticist to parse what is written on each page and match the arms to the names. I am in the process of going through Siddons's volumes to glean what I can regarding Ednyfed's arms, which are shared with his descendants among the Tudors and the Griffiths of Penrhyn, so I will learn more soon. There are a few permuatations: different heads (Englishmen's, Saxons', Saracens', giants'), different headgear (barehead, helmet, wreath), different chevrons (sable, argent, ermine)! GPinkerton (talk) 02:52, 20 February 2026 (UTC)

If you go to the Wikipedia page for Ednyfed you’ll see that I quoted Siddons. However, he doesn’t note that different branches used different arms but rather that the arms changed over time to more fully agree with the rules of armoury. Also, it is vanishingly unlikely that they were granted to Ednyfed himself. Tipcake (talk) 07:55, 20 February 2026 (UTC)